Gwinnetta Malone Crowell’s senior thesis at the University of Texas at Arlington will be based on the survey below. I am on a list witih Gwinnetta and this is for real.
Bastardette
Thanks to all of you who have taken part in my research project – Sisters from the Society of Secrets and Lies. I am very pleased with the results thus far and believe it will result in a great senior honors thesis. For decades, the only thing known by the public about women who lost their children to adoption were the theories written by adoption professionals. This is an opportunity for individual mothers to tell their story.
There is still room for more participants in my study. If your child was lost to adoption between the years 1950 – 1979, please consider taking part in this study and tell your story. Also, please feel free to forward the link to any other support groups you might be a part of.
There are 99 questions in the survey, many multiple choice. There is a field in every section to give you a chance to write as much as you need to explain your answers. Please note that this study is NOT about search and reunion (although there are questions relating to both). The primary focus of this study is who and why adoption was “chosen”, pregnancy, labor/delivery (including how hospital staff members responded to you) and post-surrender issues. I realize that although most were sent to a maternity or work home, some stayed home or with relatives. Feel free to skip any questions that do not apply to your situation.
The link to the survey is here : Please note that no identifying information is asked. You have the opportunity to enter an alias
Gwinnetta Malone Crowell
Oh, goody, more research on the subjects of the criminal experiment of adoption with questions that pre-define the experience for the victims.
How does the woman know whether the answers are from someone who has relinquished a child?
Jackie
Jackie,
that is a very good point..I have read lots of stuff that we mothers supposedly wrote , but it didn’t sound true to me. More like adopter stuff, projected onto us, or SWer propaganda…to try to make it sound like we really didn’t want our kids or that we ‘chose” adoption or we are ‘satisfied” with the way it all turned out…
Oh goody! something else coming from the adoption friendly state of TX.
Looks like maybe there’s a need for damage control
Let’s study adoptors. Why did they “choose” adoption? Why couldn’t they or wouldn’t they have babies of their own? How were they treated by doctors, lawyers, Indian Chiefs? Why didn’t they recognize that lusting after a baby, any baby, is aberrant? Why did they stay stuck in the immature defense mechanism of fantasy instead of moving on (or being professionally helped to move on) to acceptance of their disability? How did they come to the decision to destroy a real family to satisfy their obsession? How did they decide it was okay to sentence a mother to a lifetime of PTSD and unresolvable grief? What personal emotional makeup and personal ideology primed them to participate in the mean cultural expectation of adoption? How much do they enjoy being the master in a master/slave arrangement? How do they explain taking a baby for themselves instead of helping a baby to stay with its mother? How do they reconcile being a party to forging documents with the honesty all children should be raised with? How do they raise a child whose blood they find so abhorrent they threw the mother into the garbage?
While we’re at it, let’s study the adoptionists. Sure would find some interesting pathology there! Of course, Robert J. Lifton already found all the answers about that with his “Nazi Doctors” work.
Mother….
I couldn’t agree with you more..
Let’s have a once in a lifetime, hard core study of those who feel entitled to adopt and make ‘as if’ born to, other women’s children. A study that asks the hard questions, looking for the outcome of true honesty, instead of the fuzzy wuzzy feel-good feelings of taking a ‘stranger’ child into their home, supposedly ‘in the best interest of’ and announcing to the world how they are ‘rescuing/saving’ a child from from a life of pure hell and torture.
God knows the adoptee has been studied, there have been many studies of mothers who have lost a child to adoption for at least the last 7 decades, that are rarely publicly published, but are available to the medical and social worker community. Where are the honest ‘studies’ that delve into the secrets of those who adopt other women’s children? Let’s put them under the microscope for awhile. I sincerely doubt many an adopter would ‘volunteer’ to be asked and answer the hard, honest questions of ‘why’.
Seems to me Rickie Sollinger, Regina Kunzel and Ann Fessler have already delved deeply…politically, socially and personally into the hearts, minds and souls of mothers who have lost a child to adoption, especially the infant.
Gwinnett is only duplicating/repeating effort. This type of study was most currently done by Ann Fessler.
Gwinnett do yourself and other natural mothers a big favor.. Study the adopter women.. Now that is something I would PAY $$$$$ to read!
Gwinnetta is a nmother, Gladney 1965. She is a serious researcher and has already written a serious work on mothers who kept their chidlren. Here is article about her from today’s Dallas –Ft.Worth paper.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/columnists/ok_carter/15766291.htm
Marley
To Mother–
Marley replies: My nmomther was also an adopter. She couldn’t have any other children after me for reasons I don’t know. Was she evil? No doubt you hope that one of yours is burning in hell for tis faux pas. She didn’t feel she was socially acceptable without kids.
The real question is why are women obsessed with baybee making–a spurious occupation that rots the mind and body and keeps women in an inferior social and political position. And why do you push this identiy on women? Or men for that matter?
Seems to me Rickie Sollinger, Regina Kunzel and Ann Fessler have already delved deeply…politically, socially and personally into the hearts, minds and souls of mothers who have lost a child to adoption, especially the infant.
Gwinnett is only duplicating/repeating effort. This type of study was most currently done by Ann Fessler.
Marley replies: Are you trying to argue that a handful of books on a subject is adequate? If so, I hope you’re not trying for a job in academia.
Gwinnett do yourself and other natural mothers a big favor.. Study the adopter women.. Now that is something I would PAY $$$$$ to read!
Marley:
I’d say they suffer from the same malady as nmoms. They all want to be a mommie. Infertility is a gift from God to be cherished. Unfortunatley, as long as women aren’t considered “normal” unless the breed, adoption will continue. Until women have total autonomy and own their bodies adoption will continue. While I will fight for your right to mother, I have no idea why you’d want to. Especially in these days of repression and war.
Big deal! Gwinnett was a Gladney Nmother, Class of ’65. How does that make her different and more enlightened from other mothers who lost a kid to adoption during the 1960’s?? For that matter, in any year or decade?
I wish her well in her endeavors, but it doesn’t make her a special nmother in my eyes, she’s one in millions….
“God knows the adoptee has been studied, there have been many studies of mothers who have lost a child to adoption for at least the last 7 decades, that are rarely publicly published, but are available to the medical and social worker community. Where are the honest ‘studies’ that delve into the secrets of those who adopt other women’s children? Let’s put them under the microscope for awhile. I sincerely doubt many an adopter would ‘volunteer’ to be asked and answer the hard, honest questions of ‘why’.”
Yes, CH. You are so right. I very much doubt there are any studies anywhere of adoptors. That is quite shocking if you really think about it since there is so much talk of the “best interest of the child” in adoption. One would think adoptors would matter very much to the “best interest of the child” and that social workers would be falling all over themselves to prove what superior beings they chose over real parents.
Adoptors motivation to adopt needs to be studied as well as how their lives went after acquiring someone else’s child.
If anyone here knows of any serious studies of adoptors, please tell us where to find them.
Why the hostility to another natural mother, and no hostility to adoptee Ann Fessler and non-adoption related Rickie Solinger and Regina Kunzel? What do they have to do with you?
As for why adopters adopt…why does anybody crave baybees? I’ve asked his and nobody seems to care to answser.
I appreciate the fact that Gwinnett doesn’t stop at 1973 (or was it ’72) like the other authors. “As if” adoption and the corruption therein stopped at R v. W. As if unmarried mothers all of a sudden had free unhindered choice re adoption vs. parenting after 1973. Not in my world.
Rather than excortiate the effects of the underlying problem, nmothers and adopters, lets focus on the root casue of what created and continues to create them: the bankrupted societal mythos of entitilement to have the “all American family.” Without belief in the entitlement of having children to “complete” a family this system would not exist. Babies are a commodity just like any other consumer good and it is the demand that creates a system of supply.
Marley hit on the real issue and that is the cultural values of fertility and fucundity, control of women’s bodies, and the deeply embedded historic criteria that defined them rooted in patriarchy, patrimony, and the writings of Augustine regarding the role and status of women that became central to Christianity subsequently imposed throughout Western Europe via the Holy Roman Empire and through it to modern times transported to America.
It is not productive to blame nmothers and adopters for playing the roles scripted for them predicated on values regarding the exercise of women ‘s sexuality. The blame and anger must be redirected to those who orchestrate such values and roles; namely, Christian denominaitons from Roman Catholic to Evangelicals who seek to impose their truncated faith beliefs on us all as a matter of “God’s will.”
Access to birth control and access to abortion are the two biggest threats to a woman’s ability to control her own fertility and fucundity. Myopically challenged Christian zealots in the guise of “womb police” believe they are justified in making both illegal. Catholics rely on Natural Law and Evangelicals biblical inerrancy to justifiy these faith beliefs and work very hard to make them the law of the land.
It is a very short step for them to champion adoption for two reasons: a nmother’s payment and atonement for the sin of sex outside of marriage and to give the “gift” of a child to a “good” and “deserving” family therby restoring the “natural order.”
They use their religuous status as the bully pulpit to sanctify both themselves and their attack on the right of women to full reproductive health care and control their own bodies. The fight to continue to have birth control and aboriton legal is the fight to reframe the argument against them to make the arguments of Catholics and Evangelicals illegitimate and without merit.
To do that we must reframe the argument for birth control and abortion using our language and our images. We need to turn the tables and make them and their beliefs, not us and ours, the unconsciensable ones. We must create a vocabulary that undercuts their faux moral superiority and show them for the religious radicals and hypocrits they are.
In short, we must find a way to convince our opponents that religion is not an acceptable way to determine the morality or legitimacy of birth control or abortion; moreover, to oppose birth control and aboriton perpatrates an immoral act against the God given right of women to control their own fertility and fecundity.
Fr. Jack
My son often heard the “you should be grateful you weren’t aborted” line which mortifies me to hear that he had to put up with this. His life was never at stake with me. But at birth he suffered the loss of a mother who loved him from his inception. We were cut apart as a unit and within our individual selves. No one saved him. No one saved us. No reason for him to be grateful. So why does abortion have to get mixed up in all this when for so many of us it wasn’t even a thought. How does this help adopted persons? Are the issues not really separate in their own right? even though they may have a political issue in common, they are different. Do you know that even mothers who may have in the beginning thought of abortion, in the course of the 9months that they carry their baby to term, they grow to love their baby? Yes, I’ve heard some speak of this. Does this love, the love of a mother, matter any more? If anything needs to be saved, and nurtured, it is love, especially the love of a mother.
fr jack,
I used birth control and got pregnant anyway..it happens more often than people want to think. My doctor tried to force an abortion on me…that happens also.
within days of discovering I was pregnant I “knew my child ” and I wanted him.
I wanted my child,but I was forced to surrender him to adoption because unmarried mothers were persecuted. …and adoption is an industry…which thrives on that and encourages the persecution.
Infertilty issues are at least as old as the bible, and I am sure you know that…you have studied it.
I think that there is an instinctual drive to reproduce and it is felt more strongly in some than in others.
“Give me children lest I die””…sound familiar??
The father of our child rejected both of us…had he been there for us, we wouldn’t have been separated..the male made the decision and we all lost.
He eventually realized his mistake but it was too late.
How about a religious campaign to reach men/fathers and get them to be more responsible for the children they may create or have created??
I could not do abortion.. and I could not keep my child..
There was no help for me.. and I was not able to help myself..
I was not strong enough to go against a society that was very big on shame..
frjack said..
“The blame and anger must be redirected to those who orchestrate such values and roles; namely, Christian denominaitons from Roman Catholic to Evangelicals who seek to impose their truncated faith beliefs on us all as a matter of “God’s will.””
What helped me to heal from the trauma of giving my son up for adoption was “God’s will.”
I do not think we can change the society.. I think we need to learn how to live in it and also learn how to heal from situations that force us to deal with trauma that can keep us running in place for the rest of our lives..
Adoption is big in the US.. It has been ‘big’ for a long time.. it’s a solution..
Jackie
Fr. Jack wrote:
“In short, we must find a way to convince our opponents that religion is not an acceptable way to determine the morality or legitimacy of birth control or abortion;”
Nice thought, but the reality is, too many people profit both monetarily and socially from keeping things the way they are, and too many people are more than willing to turn their power over to others.
Most religion today is about control, not about “god,” and the powers that be in religion are not going to give this up. The abusers are not going to change, so the abused must. Unfortunately, it is very difficult for human beings to overcome their conditioning and think for themselves.
The mother asked:
If anyone here knows of any serious studies of adoptors, please tell us where to find them.
A quick Google search on the terms study/adoptive/parents yielded several studies addressing various aspects of adoption relating to adoptive parents. Here are a few:
http://www.news.cornell.edu/release
s/Jan97/adoptionrecord.ssl.html\
http://newsroom.msu.edu/site/indexer/1150/content.htm
http://adoptionshop.com/adoption_products/korean-adoptive-parents-perceptions-a-longitudinal-study.html
http://www.socialworkers.org/practice/children/0505snapshot.asp
http://fsos.che.umn.edu/img/assets/14761/AP%20W3%20consent%20112605%20hg.pdf
http://www.haworthpress.com/store/ArticleAbstract.asp?sid=W76U6KDRJN9F8LAXU43S9SQBNM0E67H5&ID=12716
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16757489
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15839760&dopt=Abstract
http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/Home.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=RecordDetails&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ637817&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=eric_accno&objectId=0900000b8007aa2e
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/baaf/afj/2000/00000024/00000002/art00005
A number of studies are described here:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/search?title=adoptive+parents&database=1&form_name=SIDEBAR
You’ll find more on the Minnesota-Texas study here:
http://www.research.umn.edu/spotlight/grotevant.html
Finally, while not a study, some may be interested in and others offended by what the author of this piece has to say about why people want to parent:
http://parenthood.library.wisc.edu/Leon/Leon.html
Here’s his opening paragraph in a piece called “Nature in Adootive Parnethood”:
The title of my talk is not a typo. While I will be discussing the nature of adoptive parenthood, my fundamental point is that adoptive parenthood is essentially natural. That is, the crucial cement for the construction of parenthood is the motivation to parent and the action of parenting. The psychological achievement of parenthood is the natural response to the child’s need to be nurtured–the behavioral, emotional, cognitive–in a word–social–relationship of parenting. Thus, the crucial stage of development highlighted by Erik Erikson (1953) is generativity, embodied in the need to care for, raise, and mentor the young. While this readiness to parent may be viewed as naturally built into our species, it is not instinctively inevitable. As with any developmental phase, generativity is sensitive to what has been learned or not learned before. Inadequate parents are not likely to have experienced good parenting as children. As important as reproduction is for most couples in ushering in parenthood, that act is neither necessary nor sufficient for true parental ties to be made.
Hi, kitta3, you wrote:
“I wanted my child,but I was forced to surrender him to adoption because unmarried mothers were persecuted. …and adoption is an industry…which thrives on that and encourages the persecution.”
Yes, persecution is the word for it. It was quite remarkable to me to find how much I loved my child in the womb, (as I loved his father also) as I had never thought of myself as being “motherly,” had never babysat, etc. Thinking about it now transports me back, in fact. And the utter joy I felt just after birth though he had been whisked away from me immediately and though I was still fighting, I knew he was probably lost to me…
How any human being could separate mothers and their babies is simply beyond my understanding.
And BTW, though I was at one time transported to a maternity home, I would never say I was “class of such and such,” never never never. It was nothing like that, nothing like that at all.
j. wrote:
” my fundamental point is that adoptive parenthood is essentially natural.”
Give ’em your babies. Leave the rest of us alone.
Mother replied:
“j. wrote:
‘my fundamental point is that adoptive parenthood is essentially natural.’
Give ’em your babies. Leave the rest of us alone.”
About as open-minded a response as I expected, Mom.
Don’t ask for what you don’t want.
What helped me to heal from the trauma of giving my son up for adoption was “God’s will.”
God’s will? Let me this straight.
“God’s will” was to have you get pregnant –
“God’s will” was to have you become traumaized by having your baby taken –
“God’s will” was to have nobody help you –
All of this, all of this, was just so God could exercise “His will” to help you heal?
Sounds like you don’t know the differences between evil, “God’s will” or “God’s grace”
Well, I think suggesting adoptionists give adoptors their own babies is quite openminded.
” my fundamental point is that adoptive parenthood is essentially natural.”
The fundamental point is taking
someone else’s child is essentially natural for adoptive parenthood. Can’t get any more fund-a-mental than that!
“As important as reproduction is for most couples in ushering in parenthood, that act is neither necessary nor sufficient for true parental ties to be made.”
Isn’t it interesting how the importance of reproduction switches to neither necessary nor sufficient when you just have to get a baby anyway you can? Don’t it just give you that warm, fuzzy, natural feeling?
socialworker.org? Uh, oh.
People who adopt have usually spent thousands of dollars on infertility treatments…they want their own natural child…they have a need to see themselves reflected in their children.(when questioned they will admit this) They want the experience of conception, pregnancy, bonding in the womb, birth..and then the experience of watching the children grow and seeing their heritage manifest itself again, as the life chain in their family continues.
It is only when the fertility treatments fail, that they then look to adoption as a way to acquire a child.
And then they set about denying all of the reasons for wanting their own natural children….all of the aspects of natural parenthood and family that were once so important and fundamental to them before they realized they couldn’t have children.
It would be better if they would just accept their infertility and leave the rest of us alone.And stop patting themselves on the back for their ‘readiness to parent” or their ‘naturalness’ or whatever other self-serving compliments they think up to justify their unnatural act of taking another family’s child.
There is nothing natural about hunting down pregnant
mother-to-be’s to obtain a baby.
There is nothing natural about
walking into an adoption agency and filling out order forms picking and choosing “what” kind of human flesh you will or will not accept to adopt.
There is nothing natural about contracting with a third party to do your bidding to get you “what” you want.
There is nothing natural about
“being in love” with someone who hasn’t even crossed your path.
There is nothing natural about exchanging money for a baby and pretending you didn’t.
There is nothing natural about
needing the law to make it feel natural.
There is nothing natural about
raising someone else’s child while hiding behind closed records that keeps the mother away.
There is nothing natural about
raising someone else’s child to only know a forced kind of love.
” my fundamental point is that adoptive parenthood is essentially natural.”
Of course it is. If it wasn’t, God wouldn’t have replaced birth canals with cheque books.
“There is nothing natural about hunting down pregnant-mothers-to-be to obtain a baby”.
Well for that matter, there is nothing “natural” about putting your baby up for adoption.
Gwinnetta tried to post here and had some problems, so she asked mde to post for her. Here it is:
GWENNETTA:
I have read with interest the comments relating to my research project: Sisters of the Society of Secrets and Lies. Why did I chose the topic of nmothers for my research, rather than adopters? Especially since Fessler’s book just came out?
The reason I am not writing about adopters at this point is a time factor, and because this IS a scholarly thesis, I am limited to the time the university gives me to both research and write.
Why chose mothers when another book just came out? I have been planning and preparing for this project for the past 3 years. Fessler’s book covered only 100 women. The overwelming response to my question of What motivated you to take part in this study? NMothers want to tell THEIR story – to let someone know that the 100 women interviewed in Ann’s wonderful book were not the only ones. Many have commented about how healing it was for them to write their story.
Yes, there are a handful of very wonderful books that have been published. However, very little has been written BY nmothers or that is considered “primary sources” — which academia requires. I hope one day to be able to teach a woman’s history class on adoption — the truth about adoption. The ugliness of the Baby Scoop Era. One more thing — those of us that are fighting the uphill battle of open records need to show legislators that it is NOT a handfull of nmothers who champion their son or daughter having a basic human right to their original birth certificate.
gwinnetta
kitta 3
Much of what you wrote resonates with me. I know how much birth control fails becasue of the number of women who come to me for advice once they discover they are pregnant. Some want to be told what to do: carry the baby to term and keep it, put the baby up for adoption, or have an abortion. I will not make the decision for them. What I do is give them all of the options with the pros and cons of each as I see them given that persons’ particular circumstances. I contine to work with them if that is what they want until they are able to make their own decision predicated on their informed conscience. At that point their decision is between God and themselves and to me that is the way it should be.
I agree that for most people there is a drive to reproduce and it is best articulated by Immanual Kant’s categorial imperative. Kant’s categorical imperative is the philosophical concept central to his moral philosophy and to modern deontological ethics. He introduced the concept in his “Groundwork of the Metaphysic of Morals.” Kant thought that human beings occupy a special place in creation. He also believed that morality can be summed up in one ultimate principle from which all duties and obligations are derived. Kant defined an imperative as any proposition that declares a certain kind of action (or inaction) to be necessary. A categorical imperative would denote an absolute, unconditional requirement that exerts its authority in all circumstances, and is both required and justified as an end in itself. It is best known in its first formulation:
“Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it would become a universal law.” To me there is a direct link between Kant’s categorical imerative and the pleasure of sex that leads to procreation.
Your baby’s father rejecting both of you but later changing his mind is exactly what happend to me. My mother got pregnant at 13 and I was born when she was 14. Without being crude she was a rural “farmer’s daughter” and fell in love with one of her father’s hired hands. When she could no longer hide the pregnancy and he would not marry her she was sent to a maternity home out of state. After I was born she brought me with her to live with her mother who had separated from her father. After three months her mother told her she could not keep me and I was placed for adoption through an attorney. When I began my search to find her I discovered the court documents of my finalization hearing. These documents clearly stated my mother, alone and at age 14, went to the hearing to try to stop my adoption from being finalized. After I found her she told me she had written to my father several times asking him to come to court with her but he never answered her letters. As this was in 1943 she had no chance of stopping my adoption.
My father found me five years ago and as you might expect told a completely different story. He claimed (he died two years ago) that if he had known my mother wanted him to come he would have been there becasue after she left for the maternity home he realizd he loved her. I think his abandonment of us had much to do with the fact he was 24 and if he had gone to court probably would have been arrested for statutory rape.
He married three years later and had five daughters. Does trying for a replacement son sound like it fits?
Certainly they both lost the family they could have had. But what about me? As an only chld I got all the expected benefits. I also got an adoptive mother with whom I had an adversarial relationship from the age of 7 until she died and I didn’t know she had died until 3 months after the fact becasue she made my adoptive father promise he would not tell me.
Hmmmmm, was I a winner or a loser by being adopted?
Gwinetta said: “However, very little has been written BY nmothers. “
So very true. We are still essentially an unknown quantity and it will take a thousand books to be written before the history of abduction/adoption, from the mothers perspectives, are enough. I hope mine will be one of them. Good luck with yours.
Di
Fr Jack,
My sons father admitted what he had done..there was documentation that proved I was telling the truth..so he only tried briefly to defend himself…then apologized.
Your statement about the “replacement son” does resonate with me…my child was his ndads only son..and I think that was the real reason for the ndads apology to me(decades later).I think if he had had other sons or if I had had his daughter, he wouldn’t have been so filled with remorse.
Statutory rape was not an issue in our case..although my childs father was legally an adult and I was two years younger, and not yet legally an adult, I was past the age of consent..so that was not a concern for him.
He was a college graduate and I was a college student…he already had a job and could have supported us.He had even asked me to marry him, only 2 months before..
Just another note: we do not “put ” our children “up for adoption.” We sign a “consent to adopt” or a “surrender/relinquishment of parental rights(“which most of us were threatened into signing). The government, through the legal/judicial process and with licensed agencies/lawyers etc. “places” the children in their adoptive homes, or with fostercarers, or even in institutions sometimes…or even occasionally denies the surrender and returns the children to their natural parent’s custody.The natural parents do not have the authority to actually “put children up for adoption.”
I think it is sad that your mother lost you…I have worked with teen moms and seen them do a wonderful job with their children…but family support and/or mentoring,childcare,etc from a loving helpful support “system’ is necessary. No one can raise a child completely alone.
Once a woman has carried her child in her body she is a mother…even if she is very young..she is changed forever.She cannot go back to who she was before she became pregnant.
I think it is obvious that the evolutionary reason sex is pleasurable is because no one would do it if it wasn’t…and nature wants the species to continue.We also feel pleasure and joy in our children….I will always remember the euphoria I experienced when my son was born..even though the situation was painful and I was being persecuted. There are words to this effect in the bible..as I am sure you know.
Adoption is not the same thing.People can love people they are not related to, we can love other species too, our cats and dogs, horses, even wild animals, even our houses and places we live.. But conceiving, carrying a child,and giving birth is unique..there is nothing else like it.
frjack said…
“I know how much birth control fails becasue of the number of women who come to me for advice once they discover they are pregnant. Some want to be told what to do: carry the baby to term and keep it, put the baby up for adoption, or have an abortion.”
Hey, hey, hey – according to
pro-life activists and the adoption industry pregnant women don’t know about the adoption option that’s why they need to advertise.
Jackiejdajda wrote..
“What helped me to heal from the trauma of giving my son up for adoption was “God’s will.””
Anonymous replied…
”God’s will? Let me this straight.
“God’s will” was to have you get pregnant –“
I got pregnant because I was having sex.. I was not being responsible for myself or the son I gave birth to..
Anonymous replied…
“God’s will” was to have you become traumaized by having your baby taken –
“God’s will” was to have nobody help you –
All of this, all of this, was just so God could exercise “His will” to help you heal?”
I personally believe that my son was meant to be born in 1965.. I believe that being relinquished and adopted was what was supposed to happen..
‘His fate’ to say it in a simple manner..
My fate was to sort one of the very difficult times of my life.. My fate was to learn how to forgive.. and how to deal with the guilt that was part of me for a very long time..
Anonymous replied…
“Sounds like you don’t know the differences between evil, “God’s will” or “God’s grace””
Evil is not what happened.. Evil is never what happened.. I have three grandbabies that are continuing on in this world because of what I did in order to deal with a siutaion that I brought on myself.. that being having sex when I had no business having it..
Jackie
Jackie said: “that being having sex when I had no business having it.. “”
Are you saying that the just punishment for you having sex, outside of marriage, was to have your child put up for adoption?
Pleeeeezzeee, say it ain’t so!
BTW, did the surrendering of your baby to adoption, redeem you?
If surrender of babies is the appropriate action for mothers who are “having sex when they have no business having it”…then it would follow that all potential adopters should be certified virgins. They should not have ever “had sex when they had no business having it.”
Jackiejdajda said…
“I have three grandbabies that are continuing on in this world because of what I did in order to deal with a siutaion that I brought on myself.. that being having sex when I had no business having it..”
So in following with that line of thinking, that must make a married couple having sex responsible if a child comes of it and equally they would be irresponsible if a child doesn’t come of it.
It’s a pretty arrogant attitude to think humans are The Creator of life. If they had the power and control to deem a child into existence then fertility and infertility would never be an issue for human kind.
God gave me a child. I didn’t tell Him “no”, I don’t want it.
Those who played God had no concern for my soul. They condemned me and once they got my child in hand for “the” punishment they walked away.
They were the ones God put in position to help, but instead they told Him “no” and used the opportunity to help themselves.
It’s a waste time to talk about my being used especially when I know that God was used even worse.
Ch wrote..
“Are you saying that the just punishment for you having sex, outside of marriage, was to have your child put up for adoption?”
I was not saying that at all..
Punishment has nothing to do with this.. Nothing..
kitta3 said…
“If surrender of babies is the appropriate action for mothers who are “having sex when they have no business having it”…then it would follow that all potential adopters should be certified virgins. They should not have ever “had sex when they had no business having it.””
These rules you cite or speak of are unreal.. and very strange.. and nothing to do with my comment..
Anonymous.. your latest post is full of anger.. and very strange comments..
What I wrote stands.. if you do not like what I wrote.. then we can agree to disagree..
Jackie
Jackiejdajda said to kitta3:
“These rules you cite or speak of are unreal.. and very strange.. and nothing to do with my comment.. “
Jackiejdajda said to Anonymous:
“your latest post is full of anger.. and very strange comments”
TO: kitta3 & Anonymous,
…as if self-imposed martyrdom isn’t strange?
“As if self-imposed martyrdom isn’t strange?”
Exactly, anonymous….I cannot recall that God/dess “‘said'” mothers and fathers are supposed to surrender their children to other people because they “had sex when they had no business having it”…and especially when the people who got the children probably also “had sex when they had no business having it”.
So, why are we mothers supposed to martyr ourselves….
“…especially when the people who got the children probably also “had sex when they had no business having it”.”
Yea, we got pregnant, and according to high number in statistics they got STD’s that rendered them infertile.
“STDs rendered them infertile'”…
That, and waiting too long to have children.
Seems someone has a lot of learning to do.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.adoption/browse_thread/thread/246de0c454c7302f/d89bdab5e7f355ef?hl=en&
Jackiejdajda said…
“I have three grandbabies that are continuing on in this world because of what I did in order to deal with a siutaion that I brought on myself.. that being having sex when I had no business having it..”
If you had not had sex “when you had no business having it” those grandbabies would not exist and neither would your son.
BTW, those grandbabies exist because you didn’t terminate the pregnancy. Not because you surrendered your child for adoption. If you’d kept your son those grandbabies would be calling you grandma. Do they?
Jackiejdajda said…
“Punishment has nothing to do with this.. Nothing..”
Not if you wanted to give your baby away. That just punishes the child.